Bipartisan group agree to revive auto bailout

Quality is up already.  Read the reports or better yet buy a new American made car. 

Which american made car would you be referring to Toyota or Honda?

They knew that they were losing ground and still built the same old vehicles, pontiacs, buicks, camaros...Mercurys....Ram Trucks....All muscle cars....The big three wouldn't listen and now they want me to use my hard-earned money to give them a hand up????  NO!!!!

This loan will not be like the Paulsen blank checks.

There will be terms and conditions which I hope

includes slashing pay for the millionaires that drove

the industry into the ground, pardon the pun.

The domestics are not up to the quality, engineering or mileage of the competition.  Bailing them out to keep mismanaging a dying company is nothing short of incompetent. In my view allowing the government to have a part of the management and product development of any of the domestic automakers would be even a bigger mistake, I don't want the government in the auto industry.  Let them restructure like other insolvent outmoded company's do if they want to survive, the UAW and the state officials want a band aid so they can have business as usual. 

Well folks.  Here we go again. 

Wonder why our Congressional reps delayed in making a decision on this bail out (not bail out but $$$ just to keep the big 3 running as normal to support their unions and retirees)?  The delay is more than likely the same thing that happened to the $700B bail out of Wall Street.  Our duly elected Congressional reps stalled until they could input their pork barrel projects into the bill.

Just wait and see what is going to happen with this one.  Keep a close tabs on the FINAL BILL and WHAT WAS ADDED AND BY WHOM.

It's not just poor mileage or poor quality but an issue of prestige and very poor residual values. The American automakers have ignored an increasing reality. I work in the automotive industry and have hands-on experience with almost every make and model. While there are a lot of people who buy BMWs and Mercedes' because of the badge, there are just as many people who refuse to buy an American make because of the badge. I can't tell you how many times I've heard: nice car, functional interior, but it's still a (Ford, Chevy, Chrysler). 

Hey Techie22, I think the KEY WORD in your post is HOPE!!

Two of the BIG companies have eight planes a piece. Is that really necessary. Keep one and sell the other 7. Proceeds right back to the company. They spend 17 million ALONE on Viagra.. WTF is THAT????????

At one time, back when the unions were created, they were a good thing. NOT TODAY!! There are some members who abuse the system. I know of several of them that go to work for a couple of hrs., slip out to the titty bar in the neighborhood and have someone else clock them out. Way to rip off the company you work for. A lot of crap like that goes on daily at those plants. WHO oversees their shenanigans???? Stop the bleeding!!! Those exec. can't live on like 3 million a year instead of 28 million?? I'm plugging away, putting in my 8 hrs., 4 months a year I work 2 jobs-7 days a wk. all for a grand total of $35,000 a yr. Sometimes it's a struggle to make ends meet-------but I DO IT!!! No bail out here.

"Which american made car would you be referring to Toyota or Honda"

Neither are "American made" they are American assembled....Huge difference!!

And not ALL "American" cars like GMs and Fords are built in America! Oh, but the profits come here! What profits?

The big 3 bailout,  Speaker Peloi steps up to the microphone and yells soooooweeee, suddenly there is a loud noise, some observers are alarmed but the old timers recognize the grunting and squealing, yes they have seen the old boars and sows elbowing the littler yearlings out of the way as they settle at the trough.  Soon enough the project that was designed to involve a rather limited number of industries and people will have grown into a major project of flea observation in Nevada and Marijuana research in San Francisco not to mention projects in Chicago, New Your and ever other city and town.  The cost?  Nothing the taxpayers cant handle after all they always do the right thing and reelect us the benevolent servants of the system. 

As to quality. I have a 2006 Chevy Silverado that has been just fine and no service issues at all. I also have a 2002 F-150 Ford V-6 that has about 100,000 miles that has been going and going without any problems at all. I do take excellent care of these trucks and they look almost as good as new. Care and service plays a big part in this. Most American cars are well built and I would never buy a foreign car for any reason.
Many people have ongoing problems with their cars because they do not get them serviced properly or take care of the finish. I see a lot of cars with terrible paint, it's mostly because they do not maintain the finish on the car.

Well, it's all about the unions. They have devastated many companies in this country. Well take the steel industry for example. I worked in the Republic Steel Mill for 9 months representing Exxon Oil. We were trying to manufacture a grade of pipe that was going in a special well. They failed every time they tried because of the unions. I wanted to plug in a grinder one day while at the plant to see how far a crack went into the pipe. I couldn't plug in the grinder because it was the electrician job and I waited an hour for an electrician to plug it in for me. It was like  that the entire time I was there. Poor production=poor product.  We had no choice but to give the contract to a Japanese steel mill. The unions will bring down the big three because they won't budge in changing anything. They don't care about anything except the money they can make off the back of the industry. Maybe the big 3 need to lose it all and regroup in bankruptcy court and let the unions dissolve.

What a stupid move, flying their multi million dollar corporate jets into Washington with a tin cup in their hands. I'm glad to see Congress doing their jobs now. I hope it continues.

Me too, I haven't owned a foreign car since my wife wanted a Jetta in the early 80's....otherwise, it's been chevy trucks and cars...and only ones that are built in the US.....

Folks.....when buying any one of the big 3 vehicles, look at the VIN, only buy one that starts with a 1 (means built in USA) if you buy a foreign car with a 1 it means it's "Assembled" in the USA. A 2 means Canada (Most ford and Chrysler Trucks are Canadian..or a 3 (means Mexico) a K (Korea) W (Germany) J (Japan) 4 (Other, usually Australia)

So, for instance you own a Cavalier and the first digit on the VIN is a 3 Your cavalier was built in Mexico. (Many of them were) The new beatle is Mexican...

Were should I start. My first car A 1972 Mustang Grande, perfect till I totaled it. Yes definitely a classic but built Solid. The old cars were quality. Newer NOT! 1977 Ford Grand Torino major piece of junk. My father has a Pontiac that was gray back in the early 90's that the paint started coming off at 1 year of age andGM only covered part of the cost to re-paint it despite all the reported problems with that color. 1985 Mazda pickup perfect, traded because we started having kids 70k. Purchase new 1986 Chevy Camaro Z28 kept only 11 months- dash became a rattle trap due to poor quality. 1987 Mistubihi Precis- never had one problem husband drove to 198k and it was a 4 cylinder. We got more than every penny back on this car. Great on price mileage etc. for this type of car.  We had a 1988 Chevy conversion van that had the front end worked on 3 times during warranty and continued afterwards to the point we had to get a rid of it besides all the other costly repairs we had starting at about 60k. By the way the dealership was no help. 1994- Plymouth Acclaim, my husband drove this to 223k with no issues. 1995 Ford van was okay but steering tightness not the best and everyone kept telling us thats a Ford for you. Or what about the FORD - fix or repair daily jokes. 1994 Plymouth Duster good car for sons first car, 139k when he recked it. 1995 Ford Taurus front end issues, 1998 Ford escort transmission and front end issues both vehicles for son. 1997 Olds Intrigue we loved that car but ended up with major engine work due to a know problem with the model. Coolant and oil started to mix due to this flaw. Problem was right after warranty ended and then again we started experiencing the same signs and traded it immediately only 118k when husband traded. Father brought a Olds Cutlass with all the options in 98 has 160K now and has had a$300 to 400 bill -3 times for his ignition. Theft system keeps locking up and car won't run,this car uses a regular key not a programmed key. No one can help with this problem or overide the system. Dealer says it's been a known problem. Father thought  buying a new car but has no faith in the big 3 anymore. 1999 Cadilac STS at 67k issues with the air suspension $1800 repair bill still loved this car and it's quality and comfort. Newer model not even close- plastic, cheap and cold feeling in comparison. 2001 Olds Alero- okay but window issues due to plastic parts and has lots of rattles. 2005 Envoy Denali 53k air and heater went out real nice repair bill. Traded Cadillac in for 2007 Mercedes C280 THIS car is incredible and quality -can't say enough about. Looked at Cadillacs and alot of big 3 products, quality stunk. Doors have so much cheap plastic it's disgusting. Leather poor quality and thin in comparison to car I purchased. AND guess what I paid less for the Mercedes than the Cadillac's with bad gas mileage and poor interior quality. Yes- the old classics were from the big 3, but they weren't made of cheap plastic- doors, dashes. etc.  All our vehicles are serviced consistently. So don't push the crap the big # are quality. Chrysler products have been better for us, but my inlaws New Yorker had issues from day one including trim pieces falling off. Our Envoy Denali is worth $6500 less than we owe due to the gas prices and the value did not go back up after the gas went down. We had equity before this. Do you think we will trade this vehicle ever? We'll have to drive it into the ground, if it will last. Maybe the government should gives us ALL money for new cars since alot of the SUV and Trucks  are way upside down. At least we can get something for our tax dollars instead of basically throwing $$ out the window. Check your Blue Book values and the dealers don't even want to come close to those values on trades. Foreign cars are better on resale, why? Now- how many of us will be puchasing new cars with the way things are? Market down again 444 today. We would be crazy to take any loans out now- period. Even if we thought about it most owe more on their vehicles than they are worth. What are you going to do for a down payment and to pay off your previous loan? Why would the Government throw money to the big 3? Sales are not going to go up but will continue to plummet. That's as bad as the subprime loans. Toyota and Honda's sales are down too. Chrysler filed bankruptcy years ago- did people still puchase their cars -you bet, otherwise they wouldn't still be here. If anyone on this blog had the credit issues the big 3 they couldn't get a loan or a bailout. Bankruptcy will make them restructure or fail just like Chrysler did years ago and is in trouble again. Funny Toyota projected the future and quit producing the SUV. trucks etc at some of their plants  to make way for fuel efficient. They paid attention to the economy. Trucks had resale problems starting around 2005-6 due to fuel cost. When they were making the profits they should of planned ahead. Any bailout and all our family and extended family has already said they will not consider any of the big 3 again. We are the only one's in our family with a foreign car at this time.

Just agreeing with carver....I've owned both "American" vehicles, known as Ford and GMC and the so-called imports of Honda AND Toyota.....From experience, both the Honda and Toyota were far more reliable, required less care, got better gas mileage and in general were simply better made cars than the so-called "Amercian" cars.

The Big 3 ever think of checking with those guys to see how to to run a company, much less produce a quality vehicle? BTW, my Honda is still running with over 220,000 miles on it and the only problem I've had is needing the transmission changed after living in the mountains. Worth the repair? You betcha....

The Toyota still cruises around...

 As far as the JD Powers Award won for American Cars? THAT"S BS. I sold cars in the past and the award was given by each other to make themselves look good. So Usautomaker, give up that argument for an excuse.

. I own a Honda Accord LX with 143,000 miles on it and runs like a top. Every American built car I bought in the past never made it to the 60,000 mile mark without major overhauls and NO TRADE IN VALUE. Shoddy work, lazy, hard to fire employees due to contracts with Unions.  Be P.O'd all you people if you want as in love America or leave it...Kiss my Petunia. I love America to the point I am willing to do what I have to do to be able to remain a consumer not a bottom feeder.

Oh, I bet Chavez would get a charge out of that one. 

SO TELL ME WHY people STILL buy gas at Citgo???????? Every time I see cars at a CITGO gas station I WANT TO SCREAM!!! Go elsewhere. If you boycott those stations whose primary source of oil is from the Middle East or Venezuela, don't patronize them.

BP oil uses minimal gas from the ME. Use Hess gas, Marathon. I believe the info is on line who does and who does not!

rose,

a better question might be "why do we allow Citgo gas in our country period?

TRCO-- Right ON!!! BUT-------if more people out there would get on board and NOT cater to those stations who buy from the ME or MR. CHAVEZ, trust me, they would feel it. DO you remember when FRANCE forbidden us to use their air space during the first Gulf War?? Americans did something simple like boycott their wine. THAT HAD an incredible effect on their industry. We also boycotted (for a period of time) travel there. THEY were besides themselves. THAT had a positive effect and IT WORKED!!! They were crying how they were feeling the pain in those respective industries. I'm a big wine drinker and STILL today- I DO NOT buy wine from France and as much as I would like to go see the Eiffel Tower, not for now!!! Oh well!!!

Tell me again what BP stands for?

"British Petroleum" the company that uses a lot of Alaskan oil and canadian oil and has plenty of businesses here in the United Staes employing 1000's of Americans!!

Oh yes..oil companies like BP should be nominated as the Greatest Humanitarians...even after being convicted and fined for price gouging. HELLO!!! Say what you will about Citgo but I Know some very poor families in the Northeast that benefited greatly from the heating oil provided free or at low cost by Citgo.  All oil companies are leeches one way or another... and even though Sarah Palin forgot about it the supreme court sided with Exxon/Mobil this summer on the beat down settlement Alaskans got for the Exxon Valdez.

We get about 40% of our oil products from Canada. Another 40% from Mexico, and a large amount from Venezuela. We buy less than 20% from the middle east. look it up, these numbers are real. Why be pissed at the middle east? Vent your rage on Canada and Mexico.
It's time we used our own resources. We have them. The 4 corners region of Utah and Arizona have about 2 trillion barrells of "oil from shale" that we could be using. The tree huggers are keeping us from getting to it. It has already been proven with the Alaska Pipeline that we can get resources without destroying the envoronment.

Tree huggers aren't keeping you from getting squat from Shale oil...do some research....shale oil is extremely expensive to do!!

Tree huggers aren't the problem. It's the very fact that refineries were not built and are as old as dirt BECAUSE the CEO's preferred to line their pockets so don't give me that crap. Houstonian at one time. Been there, seen those refineries with no budge from the CEO's to do more than put a band-aid repair on them.

The first thinf they should be forced to do is sell their fleets of private jets.

I agree with you on this. 

Many, many of us have learned to spend more than we make and taking a pay cut would be tough (but easier than no income at all after unemployment fizzles out and you end up taking a minimum wage job if you can find one).  If they don't realign many of the ridiculous salaries (do maintenance workers really make $23/hr?), make significant concessions and reinvest a big chunk of their top heavy salary and bonus in their own companies why should we bail them out?  They can drive (in their company-comped luxury auto), or fly commercially where they need to go.  The wealthy beggars needs to get reacquainted with poor and middle class folks.

I'm glad to see the people on the thread here are putting some well-deserved blame on the Unions...I don't see any major media stories on how destructive they have been...of course the CEOs make too much money, but that is *all* I see being covered in the mainstream news, no mention of Unions!  Remember, the Unions contribute big to political campaigns, too, so that is going to be on the minds of those who are going to have to run again in a couple years for Congress...always watch the money trail...

Moneymaddness, I live in rural NC where $75.00 is a big days pay for a great deal of people that cannot buy a $75.00 per HOUR auto. Agreat amount of this bailout money will go to the auto workers union, te need some more new $30,000,000.00 Jets and Limo's. as well as another raise to put them around the $3,000,000.00 per year annual salry. Can we aford this with most of our jobs going out of our country??

No one has mentioned this...remember Robert Nardelli, who is now CEO of Chrysler?  A few years ago he was CEO at Home Depot and almost caused it to go under.  The majority of employees hated his arrogance and were very happy to see him go.  Now he's at Chrysler going to Congress with his hand out.  Looks like he should be kicked out at Chrysler too since he didn't create anything new for them!

Nardelli is the ONLY one that said...."Yeah, I'll work for $1"

Nardelli's willing to work for $1.00, eh? Sounds like he's the only one who understands that he needs to cooperate with the powers that be.

UAW is the symbol of greed. No bailout!!!!!

Those who can do, those who can't vote democrat and join a union!!!!

UAW isn't half as greedy as the ceos, those smirks on their faces should be slapped of.

salaries and benefits for the ceos should be at minimum cut by 3/4 until they start showing a profit

and the union contracts must be re negotiated to bring them in line with wages for similar jobs across the country

these are manufacturing jobs and should not have 50, 60, 70 dollar plus per hour that's insane

You're an idiot.  We're talking about a MILLION jobs.  The Republicans don't want this to go through because they want to destroy the Union!  You think the economy is bad now, see what happens when GM and Chrysler fold and there are potentially a million more people looking for work that just isn't there. 

Good luck with that.

just who are you calling an idiot

that's a heck of a way to start a conversation

I'm sorry that so many people stand to lose their job, but hey - I stand to lose mine as well, and I'm not in an industry that's going to get a bailout, that's for sure.  And theres MILLIONS more like me!  Those workers should have been saving some of that high hourly wage instead of spending beyond their means.  While me - Jane Q Public has been doing the right thing all along expected to prop them up.  Well, I don't want to see anyone having to live in a cardboard box because they lost their job, but I don't want to live in one either, just to pay the taxes it's going to take to keep them in their homes!

Even with a bailout jobs will need to be cut and whose to say 1. that the remaining jobs stay in the USA and 2. That they don't go belly up  despite a gazillion dollar "loan."

Well, [insurance company] AIG, which I don't think anyone would think was as important to the American economy as the auto industry ... got $40 billion just now to make it up over $100 billion. To some extent, let's not have a white-collar/blue-collar bias in our public policy. You know, those who say, hey, go bankrupt so you can cut back on what the unions have won — the unions have already made some concessions. But, you know, we've had enough anti-union activity, and enough increase in income inequality in this country. I don't want to set a precedent that bankruptcy now is a way in which you undo what gains unions have been able to hold on to.

Barney Franks in his NPR interview posted yesterday.  According to Franks, now that the Wall Street bailout has been approved, it's discrimination not to bail out any other groups that have also failed to make a profit. 

What about all the contractors, skilled laborers and blue collar workers (the backbone of the building industry) in my state who are out of work as a direct result of Wall Street and Fannie Mae? 

Hey, what about my massive student loans?  I work in education/social work - I'll never make a profit!

And the "slippery slope" is a myth?

    snoop-730106   are you as ignorant as you are narrow-minded?  I am a democrat who can do, and does do and I'm not in a union.  Mass generalizations are the fuel of the uninformed.

 your an idiot i do believe i read that the republicans want this bail out and the dems are the ones that are holding it back

how about the farmers who REALLY are the back bone of america wheres the help for them the projected futures for milk for the farmer is 10/100 pounds of milk come on thats not right they work 7 days a week 365 up early and to bed late wheres the help for them if they go down then all theses bail outs dont mean a damn thing

That socialist Barney Frank-can't stand him. He and a few of his cronies are SOLELY responsible for what is going on in the housing market. Let's not forget his boyfriend at Freddie Mac. He's got some nerve. I HOPE the FBI gets done real soon with their investigation so we can ALL see what the ultimatum will be. Can't be soon enough for me. He's incompetent to the fullest extent and has NO business running any committee in Congress. I mean really, can't his fellow Congressmen SEE this with this man? He should not be allowed to hold court ANYWHERE!!

your an idiot i do believe i read that the republicans want this bail out and the dems are the ones that are holding it back

Nope, that was an SNL skit.  An understandable mistake though.

The US Auto Industry was doing all the hard things to turn itself around. The banks are to blame for this whole mess. No loans = No car sales. Where is all the complaining about the handouts they got? 750 billion of our hard earned tax dollars with no grilling before Congress! If the loans were available we would be selling cars, making money, and would never of had to show up in DC looking for a LOAN in the first place !!!!!!!!!

Instead of bailing out the big 3, why not give vouchers to all licensed drivers in the USA to trade in for a new car?  That would get some of the old rattle trap cars purchased from "Tote the Note" car lots off the road and help clean up the air.  Also it would give the big 3 an opportunity to "make sales" which is whats hurting them at this point.  Few people are buying cars because they are so strapped for cash due to the rising costs of gasoline, heating oil, food, health care, etc.

I am on a waiting list for my new Smart car why is there a waiting list?

One year to wait for a new car. It is ridiculus.

As for Detroit. Give them the money and then when they go broke we will know we did help them.

If there was an emergency then they could lower the wages to $20 an hour starting tomorrow. Aint going to happen.

LOL! ;0)

the best thing i heard today from collin cowherd on espn raido he was talking about the auto bail out and he said for them to show up in there private jets asking for money was like a guy dressed up in a top hat and a tux showing up at a soup kitchen and that was the best analogy i have ever heard

redeyes

yes indeed my company just cut wages across the board, higher % cut on the execs

every employee went for the cuts to keep their job

boo hoo boo hoo the bad economy is hurting everyone except those with union contracts

just read an article about ridiculous terms for union reps screwing tax payers collecting full salary from their jobs as police, teachers, DPW and on and on... they collect full pay from the cities and towns and counties and states yet have not worked a single hour on the job for many many months in some cases years while they conduct union business and get a salary from the union as well... so what's wrong with this picture? If I do not show up at work I do not get paid but they do

then they cry don't touch our benefits, don't cut our pay boo hoo

Don't have a job right now but I agree with them!

At the rate our Congress is going,  all of our jobs are at risk as well as our homes.

Everyone's job is at risk in this economy!!!  Sometimes I just want to shake people until their teeth rattle - maybe, just maybe, then they'd wake up to the reality of life.

I agree with you--this is crazy.  I am for workers rights, but come on.  This is insane.  The auto industry should be completely revampted from the top down.  Their labor cost all through out the companies are what is killing them. 

I am afraid if the government does not help them restructure then they will all be going to Mexico.  Which is even worse than bailing them out. 

On the unions, at one point they became more powerful than the businesses and the Gov. had to limit their power--the government should look at this again.  Workers deserve fair working conditions, pay, benefits--but at this rate our whole economy is suffering.  It would be better to lower wages and keep jobs in this country than to lose jobs totally. IMO.

Hey all you guys talking about cutting automaker's wages, 

Maybe you should take a pay cut in whatever industry you're working in, so we can buy the product your company produces for less. 

Let's have government step in and cut your wage, so that your company can survive during this economic crunch.

Let's have the government step into whatever industry you work in and cut your wages, so that  your industry will be viable. 

Where do you guys get this $73/hr silliness from?  That's based on a 40 hour work week.  20 hours overtime paid at time and a half on that wage is an additional 113880.00 per year.   Having been raised in the Detroit area, there is no f'n way you are going to convince me that U.S autoworkers are potentially making 265000.00 + a year. 

Show me official data (not some bs from a right wing website quoting Rush Limbaugh paraphrasing somebody).  

In the mean time, please unplug your computers, put them back in the box, and return them to the stores you purchased them from.  You guys are too stupid to own computers.

73.00 per hour is 151840.00 per year based on a 40 hour work week.  This site stripped that figure in my original post because I used a "slash" character. 

73 per hour X 40 X 52 = 151840.00 The figure of 151840.00 per year got stripped from my original post. 

No accountability by the government, and we the voters let them keep on going, call them, write to them, show up at there door, take back our country now!  Blogging won't get it done, yes I am guilty for wasting time blogging too!

Writing to our representatives, e-mailing them and faxing them has very little impact. Diane Feinstein said thet she received over 80 thousand faxes and e-mails, in one day, asking her not to vote for the banking bail out. She said she voted for it anyway because she felt that the voters didn't understand the issues. That is the kind of representation that the voter gets from most of our elected officials. They are smart and we are too stupid to understand anything, so they become our mommies and daddies. But we should continue and not give up.

Absofrikkenlutly

Too true...they are going to HAVE to make some concessions...current workers and retirees.  When my Dad retired he was guaranteed full insurance premium coverage til he and my mom died.  He died 3 years ago and my 82 year old mother is now paying her insurance and prescription premiums IN FULL herself.  So much for promises.  The future isn't what it use to be and we all have to learn to live with what we cannot fix.

So, jimbo, it's the Union's fault, not the "fat cats" who can't manage their way out of a grocery bag. It is the Union's fault just because people want a living wage. We should get rid of the Unions and pay the workers a $1 an hour just like China, Korea, South America. Screw the American worker! jimbo my bet is your a republican, huh? To hell with people as long as you, or the corporation, make a buck.  Greed Over People, that's your motto!

Instead of the workers making concessions make the executives and board of directors make the concessions. I work for performance based pay, and I would bet most of you folks here do too. Why is we hold CEOs is such high regard that we allow them to redistribute almost all the wealth upwards. Here we are fighting over the few measly crumbles that they let tumble down on to us. Thank God for the unions, they are the only ones fighting for us, we should stop fighting against them.

Walmart was so afraid of the unions they tried to terrify their workers into voting against the Dems. By the way  Walmart as huge as it is, is one of those companies who don't provide health care unless an employee is full time and they never have "full" time employees.

I think some of you folks here live in a bubble. You talk about people who want health care as too lazy to work for health care. I think most of you don't know that a lot of companies don't provide health care to anyone below management. Many, many, many companies don't offer health insurance to their employees. We are not talking about mom and pop shops, either. Multi-billion dollar companies who don't take care of the workers. Thank God there are still Unions out their at least protecting some of the workers in our country.

And make/build cars we will buy! This is sooo insane...this bailout...if it goes through will accomplish nothing in the long run...except increase our tax burdens!

HEY!!! How about that Mini-Cooper!!! 37+ mpg and fun to drive

Dan, 

HEY!!! How about that Mini-Cooper!!! 37+ mpg and fun to drive

There's no fewer than 20 at my local carmax all 2007-newer with low miles, and selling for WELL below what they were bought for. This is the problem.  Most educated consumers don't buy new cars. The immediate depreciation just isn't worth the effort. Doesn't matter who makes it.  Honda or BMW or Ford or GM. New car sales are down across the board. 

So looking at the 2008-2009 cars isn't really relevant..you have to look at the lease returns (2006-2008) and dealer cars. These are the best value for the money, usually the best features, and almost all of them are factory certified. (I only buy factory certified vehicles, call it peace of mind) US cars have improved in the last 2 years, but in the market buyers are actually buying, (2005-2007) they were not doing so well in quality and fit/finish. 

Now one that just irks me to no end. Why is that Toyota/VW/Mercedes/BMW all START their warrenties at 4 years 50,000 but US manufacturers are reluctant to offer above 3 years 36,000 miles? (Except on the powertrain)  Why would I want to buy a product that if I finance for 4 years is only under warranty for 75 % of my loan? Forget patriotic, that's just irresponsible. And considering all of the ridiculous reasons finance companies have started to find to increase your rates, not having your vehicle under warrenty could be a realistic next step for them. 

I LOVE THIS ANSWER!!!!!! Jack Spratt.   But we can forget this since these people are not Lee Ioccoca.

Ed, aren't you fortunate to be so wealthy that you don't have to worry about health care in your old age. Your anger at the UAW is misguided, it's not the autoworkers that are causing this problem it is the CEOs and the Directors. If you compare the wages of the line-workers to the Executives you'll see immediately where the problem is. The workers are making a living wage. They don't have multiple homes, private jets, lavish vacations every few weeks. It the CEOs, CFOs, the VP of everything and anything, that have driven this economy in the tank.

PROFIT FOR PERFORMANCE! If a company does well, the people at the top should do well, if the company is going in the ground the decision makers should be the ones hurting. The people on the line are just doing what they are told to do. And Ed, until you stand on that line and do the hard work these folks do everyday you have no right to say on iota about what they should get paid.

I so agree. The people are the foundation, not the banks, insurance companies and corporations. If I had the money it cost for one trip to DC on a private jet I could have all of my bills. This is disgusting.

just give away more money that this country does not have to begin with.Horay for the foreign country's May we the united states of america have more money.. I know I know we only owe you a couple trillion already it will be okay.

Great idea!!!!

You are dreaming, we just voted the worst congress in history back into office. They know they can do whatever they want and they won't be held accountable, they will jsut blame somebody else and their ignorant followers will buy it hook line and sinker.

The worst in history? I think not. Just because they aren't going to play the Bush game?

carlos

so why do you say the congress is worst in history?

The dems have been in charge with a razor thin majority and every turn the republicans use their filibuster (they use to call politics of obstruction) to block everything except what bushwhacker wants. The republicans have used the filibuster more in the last 2 years than the previous 15 years so who are the obstructionists?

Salem

You must be an idiot if you approve of the job congress has done the last 2 years

WAKE UP!!!!!

Worst approval ratings of any congress in this nations history

Are you sleeping with the beast(pelosi)

so snoop

how is a majority of one in the senate being block at every turn by the republicans make any sense of their job in the last two years

your buddies the Greed Over Patriotism party were in control for 12 years and they are the ones that got us in this mess in the first place

what are you sleeping with Rush or maybe Bill O

Are YOU sleeping with Bush, or Cheney? Get over yourself.

Carlos I agree 100%! Anyone who does not think that this is the worst Congress in history is naive! When the Republicans were in control the first 6 years of Bush's regime, the Dems allowed the Patriot Act to take our liberties, and they allowed the establishment of the NAU, etc, and the last two years have done nothing to reverse any of this legislation, but instead Obama voted to renew the FISA legislation. Both parties allow the Federal Reserve to continue to fleece americans and both backed the bailout. This is a joke!! I am so sick of people who are blinded by partisonship!! Both parties allowed NAFTA, CAFTA, GATT, WTO to be passed. Both parties have allowed the Iraq War to continue. Open your eyes people!

rbach and other believers, I detest both parties and am amazed anyone would defend either but to why I think they are the worst congress in history, lets see the lowest approval in history,, the least legislation in history, ridiculously inept oversight of the meltdown (remember no one in the oversight committee's saw it coming, both party's by the way)  let see more...willingness to see the economy unravel for partisan advantage, earmarks tied to the bailout package.  That has been the last 2 months or so, how much more do you need?  The partisans on both sides are willing to do nothing anytime it serves their purpose and usually when they do something its worse!  So maybe I shouldn't be complaining.  Here is a question for you, most of these scalawags have been serving for many many years and up until now they have maintained a system that has given us less than stellar results for say the last 150 years or so, my question is since the same 2 corrupt party'srun the show and have run the show for so long why do you believe that reelecting them will encourage change?  Further, why should we believe these tired partisans want any change other than a change in the power structure?  If that's what you call change, then you got what you wanted.   

Carlos

I agree neither party is serving this country well

I have been following this congress pretty closely since the dems got their 1 vote majority and have been disappointed time and again with their inaction and also have watched the republicans run rampant with their obstructionist politics with their use of the filibuster. Now they have a substantial majority beginning in January and will watch closely if anything changes

I feel the level of curruption and greed in Washington is fueled by the lobbyists and to begin to fix the problem all lobbyists should be outlawed and eliminated. This would remove some of the corporations from our government. Then their is campaign reform, not the BS that McCain touts but true reform this spending of half a trillion dollars on a presidential election is just obscene. Our politicians are being bought before they get elected

I am doing the wait and see what happens over the next 12 - 18 months and if there is any change coming we will see it in action by then

The ceos ruined the big 3, they wear thier lear jets like giant boners and to hell with anyone else. They will never willingly give up their perks to fix the problem. It all starts at the top, always does.

They dont have Learjets...

Snoop, Do you really think it is the UAW? Are you that blind? The big 3 CEOs came in lear jets.....and it's the Union killing the auto industry? These men have steered these companies in to disaster and YOU blame the unions! OH MY GAWD!

Pres Carter tried to rein in the auto companies years ago, but Reagan came in and assured the big 3 that if they build gas guzzlers people will buy them, he was right but very short sided. If we would have kept the Carter emmissions standards we probably wouldn't see the amount of foriegn cars on our roads. Big oil backed Reagan and both Bushes so now we have a failing auto industry.

 The big 3 deserve a loan and chance to reorganize. Get rid of the CEOs and the Directors, make that one of the contigencies of the loan. Everyone at the top is out. Bring in new people with new ideas, retool the plants and make smarter, more energy efficent vehicles. If the build them people will buy them. (also make them more affordable)